WATCHMEN (Movie): Is It Deep or Dumb?

18 mai 2020
297 879 Vues

Zack Snyder's "Watchmen" - Is it a brilliantly-faithful adaptation, a foolhardy perversion, or something in between? Get the MSCHF app here:
Thanks to MSCHF for sponsoring this video!
Zack Snyder's adaptation of "Watchmen" is a contentious topic amongst the Wisecrack team. Is it a brilliant extension of Alan Moore's seminal text, or a dumbed-down, Hollywood fever dream? We'll break it down for you in this Wisecrack Edition on Watchmen: Deep or Dumb?

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Watchmen (2009): Filming the Unfilmable ►
Alan Moore: The Author Who Tried to End the World ►
The Philosophy of WATCHMEN (HBO) ►

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Written by: Tommy Cook
Hosted and Directed by: Jared Bauer
Motion Graphics by: Riley A.
Wisecrack Edition Title Design by: Amanda Murphy
Editing by: Andrew Nishimura
Produced by: Evan Yee

© 2020 Wisecrack / Omnia Media, Inc.

  • What do you think? Is Zack Snyder's 'Watchmen' deep or dumb? And don't forget to download the MSCHF app here: Thanks to MSCHF for sponsoring this video!

    WisecrackWisecrackIl y a 5 mois
    • I think the ones saying it is a dumb movie, are the dumb people. Sure the violence scenes "depart" from the comic, but that is because it's a comic, and of course a comic is not in motion and can't fully show the violence that would be there. Even though the comic is violent af! The "pro-nostalgia" you talk about in the movie, is VEEEEERYYYYY self aware, it's not actually undercutting anything at all, that is what YOU as the VIEWER analyze it as, but it is not designed to "undercut" anything. It is only a different format, and it deconstructs super hero movies too because of that.

      The 80's WolfThe 80's WolfIl y a 3 mois
    • I think you are steadily lookin more like Cousin Itt

      Alfonso Andres Ríos RobalinoAlfonso Andres Ríos RobalinoIl y a 3 mois
    • In response to 300, this film is very deep. 300 is about these archetypes and stories that inspire us, even though it's propaganda. The use of slow-mo indicates the Spartans awe of these heroes, as they were deeply rooted in that society. It's about stories being what humanity cherishes. Watchmen asks the question of whether these stories are true and whether these heroes, which society cherishes are truly good. The use of slow-mo in this film suggests humanity's disgust of these heroes. Sucker Punch and lotg conclude this by pointing out how our beliefs, myths are toxic and meaningless in of themselves. The idea that we project meaning onto stories, therefore the true story is inside us. The fact that SP was original symbolises this idea even further. His DCEU films build on this idea but instead of the story focussing on the story, the story focusses on the character, Kal. He learns that he has the choice to be whoever and then chooses to put his faith in humanity and be a force for good. This film is like kierkegaard's existential journey. Bvs is about us expecting kal to be this messiah, this saviour when he's not. Bvs is about seeing humanity in figures and Gods. As we save each other, the idea of the messiah is unrealistic, it has to be mutual, it has to be balanced. It's easier to interpret Zack's films when one sees the camera to represent the public. This is because DOTD is about pop culture making us hollow as it consumes us. At the end Zack becomes consumed by the public perception and feels trapped inside it. This goes well into 300, with it delving into how stories affect humanity. Also, in Watchmen, the fight scenes still looked cool, as we are trying to find the good in these heroes, we want to be awed, when we should accept that our myths, our beliefs are toxic and we should let them go. That is why I believe Zack is a great director. He goes beyond film to make a commentary on stories and archetypes. There's a lot more at play in his films. I was just summarising.

      PhD WumbologistPhD WumbologistIl y a 4 mois
    • Dumb

      tajeditajediIl y a 4 mois
    • I second the need to address Snyder's Objectivist leanings and how that plays into his adaptation of this. A lot of rich debate to be had as a juxtaposition to the intent of the original. I feel like you would have done well with this premise, and should be its own video. Cheers

      Adam R CarrAdam R CarrIl y a 4 mois
  • Great movie

    Face ManFace ManIl y a jour
  • Pop culture...enter The Boys

    Face ManFace ManIl y a jour
  • I wanted to say something about action scenes in comics. They're never fun. There is no comic book with action scenes that take more than one spread that is worth reading. In fact, the reliance on action scenes is to make comic books attractive to people who hate reading, and in that sense, these action scenes are in their mere existence an admission that the comic isn't worth reading. It might be worth looking at, if the art is awesome, but more and more we're getting garbage art in comics. The reduction of action scenes in the Watchmen comics might also exist because there's a story that needs to be told, and there's no time wasting pages in telling "oh that dude won".0

    N-word JimN-word JimIl y a 3 jours
  • Dumn

    Derek MensaDerek MensaIl y a 9 jours
    • Dumb

      Derek MensaDerek MensaIl y a 9 jours
  • considering that 99% of people who watched this movie have not read the graphic novel its pretty harsh to judge it entirely from the point of how good the novel was adapted in the movie. the novel is about 450 pages altogether and is propably impossible to crank in one movie that has a reasonable watching lenght. even the three and a half hours long ultimate cut doesnt serve the novel that well, i could agree with that, but considering the superhero bullshit we have to deal with in our "ordinary cinema life" watchmen comes along so fucking refreshing, visually stunning with the art noir style, its like a fist to the face in the realm of all that marvel and dc convenience food we get served ( exception: deadpool). imagine the impact this movie had now, when we got served superhero bullshittery for 15 years by now. and considering zack snyders last two films ( batman vs superman and justice league) i think he did a pretty fuckin awesome job. i cannot point out enough how excellent superheros get dissolved in this movie. 9,5/10

    PintkonanPintkonanIl y a 14 jours
  • The issue with the Snyder watchmen is Dr. Manhattan was used to avoid nuclear war... but Dr. Manhattan represents nuclear weapons... so they used nuclear war to... avoid nuclear war?

    MetalBuds GamingMetalBuds GamingIl y a 14 jours
  • i enjoyed the movie. i think that it's "deep enough," throughout most of the story. watchmen is such an expertly written story that most of the social commentary was able to show through in the movie, even if snyder misinterpreted or misrepresented the more subtle implications. however, there is an aspect of the movie that i find to be very profoundly dumb. for some strange reason, snyder and his team decided to completely change the ending. instead of a giant alien cephalopod falling on new york city, it's a generic blue explosion. this ending makes no sense in context. ozymandias's whole plan was to unite the world powers under the fear of an existential threat that is bigger than any human enemy, and to avert nuclear war. for that plan to work, the threat had to be an alien squid or something similar that's completely outside of the realm of human understanding or preparedness. it had to be a sublimely terrifying presence that completely breaks down any contingency plan to deal with an attack or any dialogue to shift the blame onto other human institutions. that would force humanity to come together to figure out what has happened and how they can deal with it. an explosion would not have that same effect. plenty of cities have been bombed in history, and humans have learned to rebuild and how to avert future attacks. while bombings can be devastating to individual countries in the short term, they rarely ever lead to a complete suspension of political brinkmanship on an international scale. a lot of people would probably blame the soviets for the explosion, and that would have the opposite effect from what ozymandias wanted

    danthemanreddanthemanredIl y a 24 jours
  • I think the Ozy rewrite in Snyder’s Watchmen is pretty dumb. It makes narrative sense to cast him as this unlikeable smartass, but it elides the idealism of the original character. Thus, in the movie the only character that gets to express the moral point of view is Rohrschach, who is a terrible choice for previously mentioned reasons, and Ozy winds up like a Kissinger-esque figure or realpolitik. As much as you can describe Ozy’s worldview in those sorts of terms, the original character is much more conflicted, I think, about the choices he has to make in pursuit of establishing world peace. This is not to say that his choices aren’t morally repugnant, but at least there you get an interplay of two ways the idealism could go: Rohrschach’s nihilistic absolutism, or Ozy’s optimistic quasi-utilitarianism.

    Sebastian OrlanderSebastian OrlanderIl y a 25 jours
  • Jared’s got the the mane of a lion

    JustSomeGuyJustSomeGuyIl y a mois
  • Yeah, I went to see this movie with my grandparents when I was like 9. Little did we fucking know. *hallelujah starts playing...*

    Thug ThizzleThug ThizzleIl y a mois
  • I see watchmen as kinda dumb, because despite some of the great ideas and references Snyder did to the movie, it still goes on the wrong way of what the comic book was all about.

    Gustavo Castelo BrancoGustavo Castelo BrancoIl y a mois
  • I'd say "Watchmen" was deep, since it faithfully adapts most of the graphic novel, with only a slight attitude change for the times and medium Both versions deal realistically with pop culture, reality, politics and violence.

    Darla LathanDarla LathanIl y a mois
  • Really appreciated this discourse, but I was left feeling it oversimplified the phenomenon of nostalgia. To me, there were definitely multiple dimensions expressed in scenes relaying present vs. preferred re-enactments (personal nostalgia), between collective (verified) memories vs. personal (unverified) memories, and most importantly you all failed to distinguish between the various “nostalgic” moments and their significance to the individual characters or the story as a whole - whether they were relevant, accurate, helpful (or any of the opposites of these), etc. And what significance do the self-believed and -reinforced narratives play in the overall story, as well as audience perception? Or strikingly, why is there apparently more emphasis on contrary perceptions and reactions from main (enabled) characters to key “nostalgic” events/outcomes but no similar importance given to 1) how “normal” people/institutions experience these things and 2) no significance really at all given to finding or asserting a/the “certain” truth? What, then, does the movie say about personal recollection vs. collective memory vs. truth, and who (if anyone) dictates it, and what difference does that make in the end? Leading into other derivative questions: can we collectively accept and mitigate different versions of reality? And whose versions matter most in the end? (In movie: the altruistic? the flawed but aspirational? the cold but pragmatic? the unreliable but tragic and empathetic? In real life: the entertaining and personally appealing? Or the uncomfortable truths?) How are the different Watchmen characters representing (or contradicting) the different audience archetypes both in their world and in our (real) world? What do the format and structure of both the movie and originating comic say about how the masses acknowledge and reconcile (or DON’T on either front) the many continuous instances of personal perspective validating or contradicting so-called monumental moments, and what that has meant and might mean in the future as far as how “history” is written and later referenced? Especially since the Wisecrack staff seemed to be split on judgements, it would be great to see the outcomes of a more philosophical take on the Watchmen. Thanks, from a long-time fan!

    brainechickbrainechickIl y a mois
  • 1:56 - Save your time, you rich bastard!

    Pranav GautamPranav GautamIl y a mois
  • I love this movie I don’t really care about staying true to the book even through I read it and YOU’RE LOCKED IN GERE WOTH ME is one of the greatest lines aver and it’s beautifully directed along with its intention in my opinion, not to be edgy or deep, just to make a movie unlike any other

    ElliotDraws &StuffElliotDraws &StuffIl y a mois
  • I have the answer... watchmen is literally a rorschach ink blot test. You can look at the movie in any way you want and see smth different. From an adaptation pov, watchmen is a 3.5 hour long mess of an adaptation which misses the point of the original. But from the perspective of it being smth on its own, watchmen is a masterclass commentary on the hold that superhero stories have on our modern world which was a whole decade ahead of its time. And just like a rorschach, someone can tell you one thing and your entire view changes. I consider myself a full-on movie buff and I have to say that the 3.5 hr version of the watchmen movie is my favourite movie of all time 😌

    Dj PattersonDj PattersonIl y a mois
  • Probably the best comicbook movie ever made... what the hell happened to these kinda capes

    AjRonin 47AjRonin 47Il y a mois
  • It essentially villianized the lgbt and made the far right extremist the good guy. DUMB imo

    MedusaMedusaIl y a 2 mois
  • It's interesting at times, but it becomes too X-menish. I don't understand why Ozymandias is so powerful. I don't understand why Rorschach's face bleeds. I don't understand why Doc Manhattan is on Mars. I don't understand why a guy who is so ubiquitous is hardly to be seen. I don't understand why DM kills R when R has already sent material to the newspaper. I don't understand how the plot to kill millions is going to lead to world peace. I don't understand why a guy who can create new galaxies can't guarantee world peace (if he really wants to). I don't understand why so much was made of the comic when I get right down to it.

    Charles JannuziCharles JannuziIl y a 2 mois
  • That sponsor is pretty much falador drop party in real life ,once again runescape melts into the real world

    Carlos LeyvaCarlos LeyvaIl y a 2 mois
  • I think we can agree that the casting and performances were gold

    The Unnamed Trio VS The InternetThe Unnamed Trio VS The InternetIl y a 2 mois
  • I don't even like Alan Moore but I find this movie dumb. Zack Snyder is as deep as a glass of water.

    So DoneSo DoneIl y a 2 mois
  • "Men get arrested, dogs get put down..."

    Leander Campos - HotmailLeander Campos - HotmailIl y a 2 mois
  • Maybe because I’m a very simple man who doesn’t concern myself with stories with “Deeper meaning” or things like that and mostly just look for fun entertainment the more straightforward plot of this movie was more appealing to me

    Ben McDonaldBen McDonaldIl y a 2 mois
  • Hey wisecrack, is Netflix Dark deep or dumb? Even if you dont make a whole video bout it, a simple reply would be much appreciated.

    Tarequr RahmanTarequr RahmanIl y a 2 mois
  • I think Rorschach in Snyders movie is more likeable and more thoughtful. That goes for the whole movie. The comic book is just... depressing to be depressing in my opinion

    Brendan CoreyBrendan CoreyIl y a 2 mois
  • Everything Snyder touches he moulds it into his vision. That's his beauty. Moulding something doesn't make it dumb.... There were 4 failed attempts at making a Watchmen film before Snyder. That should say enough.... After reading the novel, I can appreciate both for the similarities and differences as well....😌

    Xandrieth XsXandrieth XsIl y a 2 mois
  • Short answer: Yesn't.

    LelouDXLelouDXIl y a 2 mois
  • adding the cool visuals didnt do anything to the story for me i got the same story

    Cameron SingletaryCameron SingletaryIl y a 2 mois
  • Zack Snyder makes movies wayyyy ahead of their time

    Ugly JutsuUgly JutsuIl y a 2 mois
  • Dumb. Dumb Snyder.

    Joan Martí Ortega i JordánJoan Martí Ortega i JordánIl y a 2 mois
  • The novel is really deep and the movie is also deep but slightly dumb. Some of the audience were surprised by changing the ending from Squid invasion to a nuclear blast that was replicated by the powers of Dr. Manhattan by Veidt. However, Dave Gibbons (co- illustrator and consulting producer of HBO's Watchmen series) found a loophole in Snyder's version, the Squid invasion in New York still happened, however in different time. The nuclear blast happened in 11:59, while the Squid invasion happened in almost 12 midnight in same date Nov. 2, Squid invasion scene from dead people to ruined buildings by a creature is horrifying to see as it was in the novel.

    Scottie Jerwin AbejuelaScottie Jerwin AbejuelaIl y a 2 mois
  • My perception of the film hasn't changed at all after watching this video. To me, it's still a disappointing movie that misses the point of the comic. I can see why the movie has fans, though-it's just not for me.

    troryANCAStroryANCASIl y a 2 mois
  • Well, I guess the conclusion of this video says: "I leave it entirely in your hands."

    Tomáš KovarovičTomáš KovarovičIl y a 2 mois
  • Definitely dumb 🤷🏿‍♂️ sorry but who tf decides to end nuclear war by “using a nuke.”... He should’ve just did the fucking squid.

    Lydell PoagLydell PoagIl y a 3 mois
  • This is a film that's both deep AND dumb

    Rex LongfellowRex LongfellowIl y a 3 mois
  • I think the ones saying it is a dumb movie, are the dumb people. Sure the violence scenes "depart" from the comic, but that is because it's a comic, and of course a comic is not in motion and can't fully show the violence that would be there. Even though the comic is violent af! The "pro-nostalgia" you talk about in the movie, is VEEEEERYYYYY self aware, it's not actually undercutting anything at all, that is what YOU as the VIEWER analyze it as, but it is not designed to "undercut" anything. It is only a different format, and it deconstructs super hero movies too because of that.

    The 80's WolfThe 80's WolfIl y a 3 mois
  • It's neither really... It's a good movie but it's a bit Luke warm

    Tyler DurdenTyler DurdenIl y a 3 mois
  • I just like the song MCR made for it

    Idk What to put hereIdk What to put hereIl y a 3 mois
  • Definitely #DUMB!

  • Just because something isn't a direct adaptation of the original work, doesn't make it stupid. Snyder clearly had some ideas in mind, whethere they paralleled Moore's is irrellevant.

    IndustrialBonecraftIndustrialBonecraftIl y a 3 mois
  • rorschach has such a deep soul and it could never be classified as dumb. his asexuality is classified perfectly too

    roro woodsyroro woodsyIl y a 3 mois
  • I strongly believe that if it wasn’t for Zack Snyder, watchmen wouldn’t be having this resurgence in pop culture as it has. I get that the heroes in the graphic novel are supposed to look like psychotic weirdos who fight crime but how was Snyder gonna do that in a big budget Warner brothers movie. Love or hate home can’t deny that he put a lot of younger people on to the original source material. Jmo

    Victor Andrew AlemanVictor Andrew AlemanIl y a 3 mois
  • No matter what side you pick, it's definitely dumber.

    Bruno TorresBruno TorresIl y a 3 mois
  • Love that Twin Peaks quilt on the wall!

    Nesley.SnipesNesley.SnipesIl y a 4 mois
  • I don't get why it's important to compare the film with the comic, just because the comic does things better it doesn't make the film worse. I think the film should be seen as it's own and not be compared to the comic.

    Krizlyyy KrizlyyyKrizlyyy KrizlyyyIl y a 4 mois
  • It starts the former and ends the latter. It needed a firmer hand in the edit room.

    Ricardo RodriguezRicardo RodriguezIl y a 4 mois
  • You know after watching this, my perception on how I feel about the movie is actually different. When I first saw I felt like it was a cool deep superhero like I never seen before, when I read the comic I then understood why it was considered dumb by other viewers as it got rid of themes such as with rorsach. But after watching this interpretation I can see how the story has been shaped to see how the medium of movies and TV has shaped are perception. Which then makes me think that this movie is actually deep on some levels. In the end I guess I sit somewhere in the middle and can see both sides same as Jared really.

    Nicholas StadtmuellerNicholas StadtmuellerIl y a 4 mois
  • Ugh I hate Snyder's whole filmmaking philosophy. A creator shouldn't want to "punish" audiences. Challenging them is so much more productive.

    Liv SenghorLiv SenghorIl y a 4 mois
  • Call you all do a Deep or Dumb episode on The Stand movies

    The Chicken MasterThe Chicken MasterIl y a 4 mois
  • I know a lot of people didn’t really like the movie, but I loved it, probably one of my favourite movies.

    CherryCherryIl y a 4 mois
  • Love that Twin Peaks blanket! The Owls are not what they seem.

    Ryan BensonRyan BensonIl y a 4 mois
  • I think its fine as an adaptation, but not as an original work of fiction like the HBO series is. Zach Synder gets somethings right while getting other things wrong. I think that's all you can truly ask from someone adapting something like Watchmen. The film isn't great but it isn't bad.

    jduncswagmoneyjduncswagmoneyIl y a 4 mois
  • Sooo Jewish.

    ChristianChristianIl y a 4 mois
  • I know what's not deep. Your sponsor.

    Augusto PolicheAugusto PolicheIl y a 4 mois
    • Ooohhh...

      Pallav MishraPallav MishraIl y a 4 mois
  • well, if you come to terms with the fact that the history of white America is all about killing colored people and stealing their properties and turning them into properties. That and the fact you build a military-industrial complex to profit off of bombing women and children around the world to death along with the national incarceration industrial complex 25 percent of the world's prison population are in America. This White's only movie is about a conservative view of white America.

    4 & 20 Black Birds4 & 20 Black BirdsIl y a 4 mois
  • In the spirit of pointing out dumb things: you dummies f’d up right at the outset. 1985 would have been Nixon’s 5th term, not his 3rd.

    James GrosserJames GrosserIl y a 4 mois
  • *insert over defensive retort before I actually watch the video, blocking any form of actual dialogue with childish remarks.*

    Trench ManTrench ManIl y a 4 mois
  • I thought it was really weird when I saw it in theaters. Then a co worker let me read his copy, and I watched it again. I really liked it. I own the dvd and then when I saw the director cut blue ray I bought it. Its in my top 5 movies. Some people hate it, a lot. I love it and its gut punch about pop culture.

    Brian AldridgeBrian AldridgeIl y a 4 mois
  • if you have weak chin it's dumb: if you have a strong jaw it's deep, but you're probably dumb

    Stone DocoStone DocoIl y a 4 mois
  • judging the film alone, having never read the comic, id say snyders watchmen is one of the most important movies of our generation and while i can understand the hate from fans of the comic, snyder did his job as a film maker. he adapted the story, kept what he felt was needed, stayed faithful to most of concepts, and told a story close enough that i can read a comic or watch the show without being confused, but different enough that i can enjoy one for one aspect and another for it.. if i were the creator i might be somewhat mad at changes, but the fact watchmen is a name as known as avengers but before avengers and did better than justice league is crazy...snyder solidified a parody story as cinematic pop culture

    enishi4ty5enishi4ty5Il y a 4 mois
  • I would say Zack Snyder is ambitious with this movie but he likes action with slow-mo, dark and grim colours to much rather than focusing the substance and the importance theme of Watchmen. So it's dumb.

    mesut ozeir95mesut ozeir95Il y a 4 mois
  • Did watchmen really have a hero? I mean, everyone is just awful. From the racist Rorschach, from the accidental mass genocidal murder Dr. Manhattan, the self righteous Hitler Ozymandius, and the rapist Comedian. They all are just terrible

    Isaias CardosoIsaias CardosoIl y a 4 mois
  • watchmen is deep and cool

    StalxDStalxDIl y a 4 mois
  • Question, Wisecrack; This analysis is all very interesting and thought-provoking, but I have to wonder; what about the HBO series you covered maybe a few months back? All that stuff about how the Snyder film didn't meet Moore's vision is interesting, but what about the HBO series? Does the HBO series meet the standards of the graphic novel, or is it just as deviating as the Snyder film? Does the HBO series glorify it's superheroes, or does it hold them up to just as much scrutiny as Moore did in the novel?

    TorridPrime217TorridPrime217Il y a 4 mois
  • Snyder is obsessed with visuals and perception, and little more. His films are breathtaking in scope... visually. In design... visually. In execution... visually. But the rest is hollow, like the backside of building set facades--little more than boards that support the imagery. 300, BvS, Man of Steel, Sucker Punch, all gorgeous, vapid, and as deep as a mirror. The more control he has, the less actual substance to be found. The DCEU films improved drastically as soon as his involvement dropped, and it's only Whedon's involvement in Justice League that made the film feel *at all* DC-ish: bright, optomistic, sappy/hokey. The films made his control diminished have all been better. For this, and for how it literally just a depiction of pop culture feeding on itself, Watchmen winds up like all of Snyder's work in my eyes: Gorgeous, hollow stupidity. EDIT: This is the first Wisecrack video I've seen talking about comics--and after watching a few more, apparently you folks came to precisely the same conclusion. Is it that apparent, and if so, why could DC not see it beforehand?

    senselockesenselockeIl y a 4 mois
  • You guys forgot to mention the differences in the endings, I feel the movie did a better job than the comic book, making the world fear Doc Manhattan and not that crazy Alien lifeform/art project subplot which has always felt like the weak point of the comic book myself even though I love it. The movie was not perfect of course, the reveal that The Comedian was Silk Specter jr's dad was badly executed I felt and the actor they chose for Ozmandias was way too scrawny - Ozzyman's supposed to be this huge hulking, athletic dude, no way that little guy they chose could take on The Comedian. No wayyy!!!

    Delta Lima HotelDelta Lima HotelIl y a 4 mois
  • It deem it deep by itself, whereas dump when I suppose that it is no work in its own right, but a mere translation of a comic onto screen.

    Rosae CruxRosae CruxIl y a 4 mois
  • Can we do a Deep or Dumb video for Dispatches from Elsewhere? I've got mixed feelings and would like to hear your take on the matter.

    Bogdan OnacaBogdan OnacaIl y a 4 mois
  • I never understood why this film got so much hate. It’s a masterpiece of a movie, it may not be 100% faithful to the comics but the message I think was there- superheroes are deeply flawed. The reality would be very different from the comics.

    torque8899torque8899Il y a 4 mois
  • Honestly, deep or dumb, it’s just refreshing to see not yet another pg-13, jokes-filled, fucking Marvel movie.

    Panagiotis GrigoriadisPanagiotis GrigoriadisIl y a 4 mois
  • Deep or dumb, Watchmen is Snyder's best movie. He has managed to make all of his others films disappointing. The depth of Watchmen is questionable, but it's interesting anyway, and the action is quite good.

    HorrornadoHorrornadoIl y a 4 mois
  • There's only one thing Snyder clearly glorified in Watchmen: BEANS.

    uum6uum6Il y a 4 mois
  • Jared just needs a ruffle and a lute.

    Scott Lee ClaytonScott Lee ClaytonIl y a 4 mois
  • It's deep. And... Sometimes dumb

    DallasDallasIl y a 4 mois
  • Zack Snyder is perhaps the worst person to adapt anything Alan Moore--from a philosophical perspective. So much of Moore´s work is about taking things that look cool and revealing them to be bad; so much of Snyder's work is about taking things that are bad and making them look cool. Moore's Rorschach exists to mock the Randian hero archetype; Snyder's Rorschach exists to deify the Randian hero archetype.

    Mitchell CameronMitchell CameronIl y a 4 mois
  • Jared perceives Watchmen just like Dr. Manhattan perceives time: he sees the whole spectrum.

    Carlos eduardo FreitasCarlos eduardo FreitasIl y a 4 mois
  • Gave this video a like for the kaptinkristian shout out

    • Still a dumb movie tho

      JOEL ROMANJOEL ROMANIl y a 4 mois
  • He didn't do the squid. 'Nuff said.

    Monty CantsinMonty CantsinIl y a 4 mois
  • Rorschach continues to be misunderstood...dudes crazy

    ervca06ervca06Il y a 4 mois
  • This week's sp0nsor is kinda of a deep or dumb

    Dalton RiserDalton RiserIl y a 4 mois
  • Firmly in the "Dumb" camp here. Love the Graphic Novel, but this movie missed everything that makes it great. The movie gets wayyy too much credit and I'll honestly never see Zack Snyder as anything but a hack.

    Jesser99Jesser99Il y a 4 mois
  • He made every character in a super hero ..... so is a poor adaptation

    seigemoseigemoIl y a 4 mois
  • It feels like a discussion regarding both versions of Watchmen feels a bit disingenuous without discussing the endings. I don’t have a preference for one over the other but it seems to me to be a crucial part of the different ideologies of both versions just as much as the glorification of violence vs the minimalist stylings of the graphic novel.

    Eric HurtadoEric HurtadoIl y a 4 mois
  • Love the Twin Peaks Tapestry!

    Alex SzaboAlex SzaboIl y a 4 mois
  • I read the comic version years ago, long before the movie was ever made because it was reccomended to me by a friend. As much as I enjoyed it and saw it as a deconstruction of superheroes and hero worship, I didn't see it as much more than a deeply satifying story about deeply flawed people. I get that they are relfections of the earlier DC heroes (in particular) viewed through a dirty lens of reality, but that didn't mean that the book was this deep philisophical text that should change or transfomr my life or thinking. And my friend, like many people who love the comic, thought I just "didn't understand it" properly. When the movie version came along the same friend lost his shit and told me that it was garbage. A big, stupid popcorn superhero movie that missed the whole point of the original. And, well I have a fondness for big dumb movies so I went to see it. It struck me in a very similar way as the comic book did. Snyder isn't my favorite movie maker, but he is really good at what he does well... adn thats big action movies. Watchment the movie, is a differnt beast than the comic, but tretains many of the same organs. As was mentioned in the video it was made for a different medium in a different timeperiod and the movie frelfects that without distorting the characters too much. As an adaptation it has to be diffeent because of the medium. A movie MUST be more streamlined and accessible than the book or comic it is based on. It has to appeal to a larger demographic because movie making is still a for profit industry. Changes have to be made to make it more relatable. The movie does this well. Characters are still recognizable and although they are softened they often have other flaws. Rorschach is an interesting example of this adaptation, in theory it makes him more relatable, since the movie more or less used him as the audience stand in) In the comic Rorschach is already a broken man in the story he tells the psychologist. He points out that he was still soft and only THOUGHT he was Rorschach. He finds lout that the suspect he had tracked down killed (and likely violated) a little girl before feedin her to his dogs. This quietly breaks him, and he coldly goes about methodically executing the man by dowsing him in gas, cuffin him to a stove and throwing him a saw. The idea is the man has the choice to cut his hand off or burn to death. He admits that he waited outside the building for an a hour watching for the man to escape, likely to make sure he didn't. Nobody escaped the flames and thus Kovacs "became" Rorschach. In the movie the scene plays out very similarly until the man is cuffed to the stove. Kovacs, listening to the man plead for his life and saying he's sick and needs therapy, snaps and kills him in a rage. He tells the psychologist that he died witht he girl and Rorschach was born when he killed the man. This version makes Rorschach more "human" and acceptable to a wider audience as he wasn't beyond saving before that moment. (I wasn't too thrilled with the changes to Rorschach but it makes sense why they would go that way) The film also manages to make the comic's plot, which sometimes rambles and sometimes fixates on physchological hangups that wouldn't translate well into a "superhero" movie, easier to follow and more on track. My friend pointed out that streamling the plot made the movie weaker, especially since it cut out the Black Freighter / Priate comic-within-a-comic stuff. However the movie also cut a subplot about Viedt kidnapping / recruiting scientists and artists an haviing them work for him on an island in secret. this omission changed the ending of the movie, moving the events away from the comic dramatically. This change actually works better and makes more sense given the entire "Mutually Assured Destruction" tensions between nation in both the comic and the movie. Adaptations need to be seen through the lens of the medium they are made for. If the core of the the original is intact, and in Watchmen's case i think that core is a deconstruction of and reflection on superheroes, then the adaptation must be seen as an alternate version of the the original work rather than a copy. When you lose sight of what the core of the original was that is what should make a bad or dumb adaptation. In my opinion Wtchman is a good adaptation (maybe not the best possible) that holds much of the core ideas of the book. Avatar the Last Airbender on the other hand is a terrible adaptation of the original cartoon, as it missed most of what was the core of that series (the odd tweaks and changes made to the bending abilties and the off-character actions especially). whew.. this ramble went on a bit.....

    RandomBrainCellRandomBrainCellIl y a 4 mois
  • Id totally agree it is based on what you are measuring or which creators perspective. But watchmen is my favourite superhero movie. And it really was cause of the contrast of regular super hero movies, putting things in a very grey area and creating commentary or I'd say even a satire on super heroes and pop culture about them.

    Aubrey LadanAubrey LadanIl y a 4 mois
  • I believe deep cause of the last moments where everyone was ready to have peace standing on a lie.

    RalunixRalunixIl y a 4 mois
  • I thought this movie was excellent.

    Netro LancerNetro LancerIl y a 4 mois
  • In 1985, wouldnt it be Nixons 5th term? Or is it non-contiguous?

    Henrik LindellHenrik LindellIl y a 4 mois
  • Dr manhattan vs dr strange ?

    Millicent T. WilsonMillicent T. WilsonIl y a 4 mois
  • just as the 'author is dead', so is his intent. i think moore never understood that once his words were on paper, they were no longer his, he has gifted them to us and our imagination to create a child story from it. the old saying "every story has three sides, your, his and the truth' i think is wrong, i think a story has a side for every time its told, and all those sides are their own story with their own merits.

    Chillin GamesChillin GamesIl y a 4 mois
  • Do the amazon prime series Preacher: is it deep or dumb?

    Manuel PapilsonManuel PapilsonIl y a 4 mois
  • I think it betrays the comic book, but that doesn't mean it is not deep itself.

    Edgar-RightEdgar-RightIl y a 4 mois
  • I actually thought making Dr. Manhattan the scapegoat was a smarter decision than the random monster in the comic

    The Scapegoat MechanismThe Scapegoat MechanismIl y a 4 mois
  • it would be cool to hear your opinions on how DC's Legends of Tomorrow uses the ridiculous to make a ridiculous premise work.

    Aleph NullAleph NullIl y a 4 mois
  • So, can any deviation in experience be explained by the difference in medium or difference of when each was completed (with the comic being deeply rooted in its time vs the movie that came along, what, 20 years later and thus being a product of its time)? Were the creators of the movie duty bound to recreate what readers experienced in the 1980s when "Watchmen" was first published? Was that ever a real possibility?

    Doc TarDoc TarIl y a 4 mois
  • If a movie has something deeply hidden in it then it’s definitely deep. And not filming it as it was shown in comic book just shows that it is it’s own product.

    fan23fanfan23fanIl y a 4 mois
  • Things are black and white Ozymandias is a villain Dr. Manhattan is a murderer

    rainphantomrainphantomIl y a 4 mois